Session Start: Sat Mar 16 00:00:00 2013 Session Ident: #glitchpc [00:00] * Now talking in #glitchpc
[00:00] * Topic is 'Welcome to #glitchpc chat. Profanity, trolls, and impersonation are not welcome here. Street1 has become a Silent Keyboard. http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/savannah/obituary.aspx?page=lifestory&pid=139870551'
[00:00] * Set by jacky on Tue Mar 02 11:03:23
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[03:32]<@BC_Programming> well at least I moved Eclipse to my C:\ drive so I can't avoid the whole devbukkit 1.5 being released thing curses
[03:54]<@BC_Programming> hey wait a second, if I bought this 1.5 TB drive less than 5 years ago I think that's warranty replacement terrain right there
[04:10]<@BC_Programming> ahh nevermind it's out of warranty after all, thought it was 5 yrs, must be 3
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[04:58]<@BC_Programming> Tux2: you still about?
[06:00]<@BC_Programming> oooOooo... there is a client-side SharePoint API for .NET that should do the job, instead of the browser method
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[08:19]<+camerongray> hey jacky
[08:20]<@jacky> camerongray: Hello
[08:52]<+Craig> Morning Guys
[08:52]<@BC_Programming> hey peeps
[08:54]<+Craig> Hey BC
[08:54]<@BC_Programming> hiya Craig
[08:55]<+Craig> You wanna play a game?
[08:55]<@jacky> Dr. Falken!
[08:55]<@BC_Programming> lol
[08:55]<@BC_Programming> like what?
[08:55]<@jacky> hehe
[08:55]<@jacky> [peep, peep]
[08:55]<+Craig> Like Sanctum or something
[08:55]<@BC_Programming> I updated the Vanilla MC Server to the latest post 1.5 snapshot, fwiw once I got Internet back
[08:56]<+camerongray> hey Craig & BC_Programming
[08:56]<@BC_Programming> I don't think you really play on the server there though Craig
[08:56]<@BC_Programming> ohhh
[08:56]<+Craig> not overly :P
[08:57]<@BC_Programming> you know what we could play... Terraria... always wanted to give Multiplayer a go, never tried it before
[08:57]<@BC_Programming> Mulreay was not enthusiastic about it when I posited the idea before :/
[08:57]<+Craig> hahahahah No
[08:57]<+Craig> ?
[08:57]<+Craig> thats funny :P
[08:58]<+Craig> Mulreay doesnt like that game so thats understandable :P
[08:58]<@BC_Programming> ahh
[08:58]<@BC_Programming> apparently it is getting an update of some sort, don't know any details
[08:59]<@BC_Programming> why was the terraria suggestion funny :/
[09:00]<+Craig> Just cause of mulreay :p
[09:00]<@BC_Programming> ahhh
[09:00]<+Craig> Ok, my server is up
[09:00]<@Mulreay> Hey Craig, camerongray, long time no see BC_Programming and that's about it.. oh jacky.. hi
[09:00]<+Craig> join on,

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Session Start: Sat Mar 16 09:05:08 2013 Session Ident: #glitchpc [09:05] * Now talking in #glitchpc
[09:05] * Topic is 'Welcome to #glitchpc chat. Profanity, trolls, and impersonation are not welcome here. Street1 has become a Silent Keyboard. http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/savannah/obituary.aspx?page=lifestory&pid=139870551'
[09:05] * Set by jacky on Tue Mar 02 11:03:23
[09:05] * ChanServ sets mode: +a
[09:05] * ChanServ sets mode: +o ChanbotVI
[09:05]<@BC_Programming> 1.1.2 presumably
[09:06]<+Craig> Not sure what you mean? Steam updates it automatically
[09:06]<@BC_Programming> yeah I don't have it legit
[09:07]<@BC_Programming> not sure if that will cause a issue connecting, should have 1.1.2 in a few moments
[10:11]<+Craig> Hey BC, why did you quit?
[11:44]<+Craig> Man I hate terraria and their no linux server support... :<
[11:45]<@Mulreay> me too, it's why I don't play
[11:45]<+Craig> And I cannot find a copy of TDSM for 1.1.2 thats been compiled yet...
[11:45]<+Craig> I would compile it if I knew how... :S
[11:48]<+Craig> WOW< I have one running on linux!?
[11:48]<+Craig> Give me a few minutes to test, then we can see if it has indeed worked.
[11:52]<+Craig> WOOT!
[11:52]<+Craig> It does, it does!
[11:55]<+Craig> join on, www.brokedcomputer.com
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[11:59]<+Tux2> lol
[12:19]<@Mulreay> Forgot to say Craig, Scott will be calling me on Skype now on Monday.. I know you have work but you never know
[12:20]<+Craig> Why did he change the day
[12:20]<+Craig> ?
[12:22]<@Mulreay> The day is the same but the method (skype) has, I may have already told you he changed from there MS conference call thingy I forget. But it's now Skype rather than that
[12:23]<@Mulreay> With my Dad, brother and friends I forget who has said what and who I have told
[12:47]<+Craig> You should join on my server, :) Its running pretty well :)
[12:53]<@Mulreay> Loads of work to do buddy before the call on Monday. Working on questions to ask and what we already have in place and what we need to do. Would love a time out to be fair
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[13:00]<@jacky> be back later
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[13:25]<@Mulreay> Thinking on actually Craig, camerongray and Tux2 If you have any suggestions of what I should ask Scott on Monday could you PM me with them. Or post in #pixelsintheblood would really help out
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[13:52]<@BC_Programming> Craig: Terraria has a unofficial Linux port, it's called Linaria. It runs on Mono
[13:56]<+Craig> Try my server again, see if its laggy for you
[14:17]<+Craig> Cannot seem to understand why Terraria uses 100% of one core on my 3.88Ghz processor... :S
[14:17]<@BC_Programming> it's single-threaded and doesn't use a frame-limited idle loop
[14:18]<+Craig> Well crap, how could I fix the limiter?
[14:18]<@BC_Programming> It's part of XNA
[14:18]<@BC_Programming> you can't
[14:18]<+Craig> ...
[14:18]<@BC_Programming> is this the server?
[14:18]<+Craig> And they wonder why people hate windows.. :P
[14:18]<+Craig> Nah the client
[14:18]<@BC_Programming> Dude
[14:18]<@BC_Programming> I suppose I need to explain this
[14:19]<+Craig> hahahah
[14:19]<+Craig> probably
[14:19]<@BC_Programming> Think about it... When you are running the client
[14:19]<@BC_Programming> you are running the game
[14:19]<+Craig> Essentially, thought I was running off of a server
[14:19]<@BC_Programming> if the program DOESN'T use as much as possible, you are very likely getting less of an ideal experience
[14:19]<+Craig> *quotes neede*
[14:19]<+Craig> I don't need 200fps though
[14:19]<+Craig> just 60
[14:20]<@BC_Programming> Then use your GPU driver to force VSYNC or something
[14:20]<+Craig> You think that would work?
[14:20]<@BC_Programming> it might be worth a try
[14:22]<@BC_Programming> IMO the problem is that you are looking at CPU usage not as a CPU utilization amount, but more in terms of how evil the program is. This is actually very common- it seems like, there are some people that don't look at Task Manager/Process Explorer's CPU Usage meter as a diagnostic tool... but as a way of, basically, counting how many puppies a program kicks per second
[14:23]<+Craig> Alright please elabourate. That was a bit over my head :P
[14:24]<@BC_Programming> Fundamentally, a program that consumes 100% CPU continously even when putatively idle might be viewed as an unrepentant puppy-kicker, if the program is using 100% cpu and doing something with it, I don't think it is scorn worthy. When you are running a game, using a single core at full throttle is not a problem, because the game is using it- it's the only thing you are really running so in
[14:24]<@BC_Programming> many respects it is already given priority over everything else; and the rest of the system still has other cores to deal with.
[14:24]<+Craig> I just wish that it was multithreaded... :S
[14:24]<@BC_Programming> It's also worth noting that if you had only a single core, than the background processes would still be given their fair share of timeslices; the fact is that since nothing needs that core, it makes a LOT more sense to simply not force the application that is processing to context-switch
[14:25]<+Craig> :P
[14:25]<@BC_Programming> context-switches are expensive as frik
[14:25]<+Craig> Didn't know that.
[14:25]<@BC_Programming> Fundamentally every discussion I've seen online where somebody thinks "man, I wish X was multi-threaded" seems to be steeped in the idea that multi-threading something is going to always be faster
[14:26]<@BC_Programming> For example: my game uses two threads. So I thought once, hey, if I move other processing into other threads, I can better utilize more cores!
[14:26]<+Craig> Well what I was thinking in terms of threading was making water a specific thread to optimize how quickly it responds, because it seems to take up most of the power.
[14:27]<@BC_Programming> Imagine my surprise when the entire thing went from 120fps to 10fps; between the extra context switches between threads, and the locking of resources, it just made things take longer... and all this was in addition to the ridiculously immense added complexity of managing them and stuff
[14:27]<@BC_Programming> The problem with that is that everything is working with the game's tile data, right- so when the water "thread" needs to change something, it needs to make sure that nothing else will change it in the meantime
[14:28]<+Craig> Hmmm
[14:28]<@BC_Programming> so what would end up happening is the water handling thread would basically freeze the other thread while it does that, which sort of defeats the purpose methinks
[14:28]<+Craig> that makes sense
[14:28]<+Craig> Quite possibly
[14:28]<@BC_Programming> it is certainly possible to separate them- if the data for water was not, say, stored in the tiles, then it could be threaded separately
[14:28]<@BC_Programming> but that would, of course, make the game a lot more complex, if my experience is any indication. And my game is quite a bit simpler
[14:29]<+Craig> I wonder if that is possible, making it more of a gpu thing, rendering as a particle rather than a tile.
[14:29]<+Craig> *and yes I know that many particles could be degrading too
[14:29]<@BC_Programming> Water is a game object thing; it's not just like something that you can render as an effect
[14:30]<@BC_Programming> for example stuff splashes when it hits water, monsters and players are effected, etc.
[14:30]<+Craig> True, however I have seen it used like that and it worked fairly wekk.
[14:30]<@BC_Programming> FWIW, my XNA game also throttles at 25% on a single core
[14:31]<@BC_Programming> oooh you know what, XNA sort of chagrins multiple threads; since you are supposed to only do game "ticks" in the appropriate method that is called by the framework
[14:31]<@BC_Programming> and if you say spawn another thread and mess with it there things get wonky and out of sync and it just acts stupid
[14:32]<+Craig> Interestibng
[14:32]<+Craig> interesting*
[14:32]<@BC_Programming> I think it has to do with the use of system resources as they pertain to games and how they generally take exclusive access to resources
[14:34]<@BC_Programming> Actually there are several places in Terraria (according to Reflector) where it spawns threads, so something is multi-threaded
[14:34]<@BC_Programming> I don't know what though since it's all obfuscated
[14:35]<+Craig> :P
[14:36]<@BC_Programming> Actually I think maybe water is multi-threaded, would certainly explain some of the behaviours I've seen in Single Player. Sometimes all water stuff just- stops, but everything else still interacts. Seemed like some sort of locking issue or something
[14:37]<@BC_Programming> not sure why it wouldn't use multiple cores. I guess maybe there aren't usually updates to the water that require it if this is the case, since water/lava is usually still and even if there is some that is moving about, they probably don't use much processor power so it might only go up to 26% usage and then back down
[14:48]<+camerongray> Mulreay: I'd ask about Windows licencing
[14:48]<@Mulreay> hey camerongray how do you mean?
[14:49]<+camerongray> Scott is the MS guy right?
[14:49]<@Mulreay> yes
[14:49]<+camerongray> Ask him about getting a deal on MS licences for your machines
[14:49]<+camerongray> They would cost around £70 per box
[14:50]<@Mulreay> I'm hoping they will supply the machines inc the OS to be fair.. I can't see the OS being a problem if they are interested in backing.. but could point to raise with him
[14:50]<+camerongray> Hmm, not sure if MS would supply all the machines :P
[14:51]<+camerongray> Would be best to get money for them, I wouldn't reccommend premade machines
[14:52]<@Mulreay> Yeah, but who would do 60+ bespoke machines for us?
[14:52]<+camerongray> Build them ourselves :P - I'd help
[14:52]<+camerongray> Otherwise you will run into problems fixing them
[14:52]<@BC_Programming> Microsoft doesn't sell computers, so I don't see how they would supply them. depending on their backing they might be willing to finance the hardware and provide the software.
[14:53]<+camerongray> Yeah
[14:53]<+camerongray> I honestly can't think of any mass-produced machine good for gaming
[14:53]<+Tux2> I can build computers en-masse
[14:53]<+Tux2> I've even got the experience to do it
[14:54]<+camerongray> Do it when you all come over, rent a big space and set up a production line :P
[14:54]<@Mulreay> It would be difficult as you cannot make it down due to Uni and craig and Tux2 will be around for maybe a day or two before the event
[14:54]<+camerongray> I could build them here and ship them to you
[14:55]<+camerongray> If we are still thinking SFF you could ship several in a box
[14:55]<+Tux2> sysprep is cool
[14:55]<+Tux2> since we would have the space for the event, we could just set them all up, build them and use fog to image all of them the same
[14:55]<+camerongray> Yeah, I was thinking some way of having an image on a network and can install them over PXE
[14:56]<@Mulreay> Tux2 by the time I have you and Craig down your time will be spent setting up the system so the PC's would need to be done before hand
[14:56]<+camerongray> Would be good to reinstall them before every event
[14:56]<@Mulreay> Mmm good thinking camerongray..
[14:56]<+camerongray> And I suppose I could come down for a few days, would hate to miss everything :P
[14:57]<@Mulreay> heh
[14:57]<+camerongray> I'd happily build a bunch over some time
[14:57]<+camerongray> Potentially ship some parts, I build and send them to you and then send me more parts - As long as I have space to store what I'm working with I'm happy
[14:57]<@Mulreay> We would likely only have the event for 5 days according to the event manager. Fri Sat Sun for gaming and Thu to set up and Mon to break down
[14:58]<+camerongray> Ahh, sounds good then
[14:58]<@Mulreay> Event manager fyi is a company in Manchester that do corporate events. There helping out
[14:58]<+camerongray> I wouldn't be gaming so I'd be happy to act as a technician
[15:00]<@Mulreay> I'm not sure about shipping the PC's backwards and forwards as that would require lots more cost with shipping and storage
[15:00]<+camerongray> hmm, wouldn't be too bad, ship parts directly from supplier to me then I ship PCs to you
[15:01]<@BC_Programming> three years later and people still post Minecraft builds on reddit of shuttles that come nowhere near yours in scope, Mulreay
[15:01]<@BC_Programming> http://i.imgur.com/NGjD6N7.png
[15:01]<+camerongray> Probably still cheaper than buying mass produced machines
[15:01]<@Mulreay> I guess Tux2 if you were happy to and camerongray was happy to I could get you both in a few days before the event to get the systems built?
[15:01]<+camerongray> Yeah, I could do some beforehand too
[15:01]<+camerongray> Who needs sleep!
[15:01]<@Mulreay> lol
[15:02]<+camerongray> See how many odd looks you get leaving a hotel with 60 PCs :P
[15:02]<@Mulreay> OK we have a plan of sorts.. i can tell Scott if he asks
[15:02]<+camerongray> nice!
[15:02]<@Mulreay> lol camerongray
[15:02]<+camerongray> Where would you store them after the event?
[15:02]<@Mulreay> In storage units
[15:02]<+camerongray> Ahh, nice!
[15:02]<@Mulreay> Already have a quote
[15:03]<+camerongray> Will have to be SFF really
[15:03]<@Mulreay> with insurance
[15:03]<@BC_Programming> SFF= Super frikkin Fun?
[15:03]<+camerongray> HAHAH!
[15:03]<+camerongray> I imagine that is a "They are horrible to build"
[15:04]<@Mulreay> We just need machines that can play the highest end game which would be Starcraft probably with Halo and CoD and stuff
[15:04]<+camerongray> Ahh, then I'd say i3/i5 with a 660ti
[15:04]<+camerongray> Would be nice and futureproof
[15:05]<+camerongray> Thinking this case as it uses standard parts and can still take long GPUs - http://www.coolermaster.com/product.php?product_id=6852
[15:05]<+Tux2> Mulreay: that would work for me
[15:05]<@Mulreay> Actually could you PM me a list of specs you think would be best? Just specs with a few names dropped. Atleast I can have a look and then if/when he asks I can give him an idea
[15:05]<@Mulreay> Tux2 cool
[15:06]<+Tux2> One thing I would do: don't get Asus motherboards
[15:06]<+Tux2> If anything get MSI
[15:08]<@Mulreay> OK cool, can you guys have a think and give me the best possible build we can use, with ease of building. Obviuosly we need to not go crazy with the cost
[15:08]<@Mulreay> This is where you guys shine in knowledge, I fall down here a little
[15:09]<@BC_Programming> uhh... if I might weigh in here, wouldn't it make sense to line up the sponsors here and then use their stuff? after all I would think that is part of what they are looking for, publicity on their involvement
[15:09]<+camerongray> Hmm, I've heard bad things about MSI from Calum
[15:09]<+camerongray> Yeah
[15:09]<+camerongray> I personally love Gigabyte boards, never had a problem
[15:09]<+camerongray> But BC is right, see what sponsors you get
[15:10]<@BC_Programming> What I mean is, say, you get sponsorship from a motherboard company, like Gigabyte, for example; obviously the best way to make them happy with their decision would be to use their hardware, same with graphics cards and whatnot
[15:10]<+camerongray> Yeah
[15:10]<@Mulreay> BC_Programming without knowing how much MS want as the primery sponsor and how much they will allow me in gold, silver and bronx=ze sponsors I have to build for what I am presented with
[15:11]<+Tux2> Yup
[15:11]<+Tux2> camerongray: I've never had a problem with MSI boards
[15:11]<+camerongray> Nor have I, just what I've heard from Calum
[15:11]<@BC_Programming> and I've never had a problem with falling in Lava irl... but I've heard stories
[15:11]<+Tux2> lol
[15:12]<+Tux2> I worked in IT for quite a few years, and I know which boards failed and which ones didn't
[15:12]<+Tux2> Asus was always at the top of my list for "didn't work properly"
[15:12]<+camerongray> Yeah, Calum worked for OCUK
[15:12]<@BC_Programming> well yeah but that is still anecdotal, it's fair to say
[15:12]<+Tux2> Either way, it's personal opinion
[15:13]<@BC_Programming> fair enough
[15:13]<+Tux2> If we get asus as a sponsor, they'd better be ready to provide the Kingston paired memory needed
[15:13]<@Mulreay> Stability is key in the build. We will have backup PC's but I don't want the need to keep swapping them out during a tournament
[15:13]<+camerongray> lol, I've been fine with ASUS and non-kingston RAM
[15:13]<+camerongray> Yeah
[15:14]<+Tux2> lol, yeah, it really depends on the board
[15:14]<+camerongray> I'd happily be a tech, swapping machines and fixing bad ones
[15:14]<+Tux2> Well, for me I'd be happy with anything besides ASUS
[15:14]<@Mulreay> But camerongray you have uni to think of.
[15:15]<+camerongray> True, I should be fine for a few days
[15:15]<+camerongray> Lectures are recorded so I can still go through the stuff at nigth
[15:15]<+Tux2> Well, I say go after AMD, Intel, and MSI as sponsors first
[15:15]<+camerongray> And Gigabyte :P
[15:15]<+camerongray> And Coolermaster
[15:15]<+Tux2> yeah, them too
[15:15]<@Mulreay> No Nvidia?
[15:16]<+camerongray> Yeah, NVIDIA too
[15:16]<@Mulreay> lol
[15:16]<@BC_Programming> uh
[15:16]<+Tux2> If you get AMD you get radeon
[15:16]<+Tux2> ATI*
[15:16]<+camerongray> True but I'm not a fan of their CPUs :P
[15:16]<+Tux2> lol, me either, but they do work
[15:17]<+camerongray> They aren't bad, just haven't made many advancements
[15:17]<+Tux2> exactly
[15:17]<+camerongray> And a lot of gamer type people to see AMD as a cheaper alternative and might put them off
[15:17]<@BC_Programming> My point previously was it depends on who is willing to sponsor; and of course that- and whether Mulreay can even ask for more and how much they can contribute sort of depends on what MS wants as a primary sponsor, if I understand correctly
[15:17]<+Tux2> I prefer Intel, but of course, if you are in negotiations with AMD and Intel then the stakes are raised for both companies
[15:18]<@Mulreay> true BC_Programming
[15:18]<@Mulreay> Also Tux2 who would want to not sponsor next to another company.. any bad blood between companies?
[15:18]<+Tux2> I'm not quite sure
[15:18]<@BC_Programming> Come to think of it, a lot of competing companies often sponsor the same event
[15:19]<@BC_Programming> but I think they will be willing to sponsor "more" if they are 'exclusive' which makes sense
[15:19]<+Tux2> Exactly
[15:19]<+Tux2> Which means be in negotiations with both, and make that known to both
[15:19]<+Tux2> That way both will be willing to pay more for exclusiveness
[15:20]<@Mulreay> We need really to see what Scott says on Monday but having as much in place when it comes to things like PC builds will give me something to back up our intent
[15:20]<+Tux2> If you get intel, you also might be able to get SSD HDDs from them
[15:21]<@Mulreay> Anyone know the relation between MS and intel/AMD?
[15:21]<@BC_Programming> symbiotic
[15:21]<+Tux2> Yeah
[15:21]<+Tux2> It's in their best interest to support both companies
[15:21]<@Mulreay> That helps then, we can't go wrong with either
[15:22]<+Tux2> I'd say we get SSD drives for all the computers, that way you cut load times to a minimum
[15:23]<@Mulreay> And the cost would be maximum unless there sponsored
[15:25]<@BC_Programming> yeah I'm thinking- and I know I'm not personally involved in this so I hope this isn't at all unwelcome or anything- that, obviously the idea isn't to go with the best of the best offerings; eg. there is probably not a need to have say a thousand dollar setup of GPUs setup in Crossfire or SLI in each machine...
[15:26]<@Mulreay> Your always welcome BC_Programming and you will be always involved as long as I can ask you on here :) But yeah i agree
[15:27]<@BC_Programming> of course Nvidia or AMD may be like "OK, if we sponsor we want to make the best impression of our products" and decide to go ahead and provide a sweet crossfire or SLI setup- as a sort of "advertisement" of the technology, if that makes sense
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[15:27]<@Mulreay> Yeah, but like you say that is then there choice
[15:28]<@BC_Programming> then you have a bit of reliance on say motherboards, which support Corssfire and stuff separately- quite an management job here if I say so myself, to properly weigh the concerns of any and all sponsors
[15:32]<@Mulreay> If I go quite it just means I'm making notes
[15:32]<@BC_Programming> so here's my suggestions, Motherboard wise, I'd say companies like Gigabyte, ASUS, and MSI; for Graphics cards, NVidia- or perhaps more specifically some specific provider of Nvidia cards- coincidentally, ASUS and MSI are both in that domain as well, so that might be applicable. For CPU we have two choices- AMD and Intel, and I don't think you can go wrong with either. It might also be an
[15:32]<@BC_Programming> idea to see if Creative has any interest; their sound hardware isn't needed since motherboard audio should be sufficient but they might be willing to provide some of their OP sound hardware; then there are considerations such as keyboards and mice- especially viewed in the context of gaming, as well as speakers and whatnot
[15:33]<+camerongray> yeah
[15:33]<+camerongray> Probably don't want SLI if we are thinking ITX
[15:33]<+camerongray> Just so much easier to store
[15:34]<@BC_Programming> MS has keyboards and Mice, so it might be worth discussing that angle during the conversation, come to think of it. Not sure if they have "gaming" keyboards and mice. At the very least I'd imagine it prudent to give them the first call on keyboards/mice before you make offers to say Logitech, as a primary sponsor
[15:34]<@Mulreay> When it comes to keyboards, mice and headsets I will be looking at someone like Razer for sponsorship but most gamers will bring there own
[15:34]<+camerongray> Yeah
[15:34]<+camerongray> Corsair also do keyboards and mine
[15:34]<+camerongray> mice*
[15:35]<@Mulreay> I did mention in my primary email to Scott we would need PC's, monitors, keyboards, mice and headsets..
[15:36]<+camerongray> nice!
[15:36]<@BC_Programming> did I talk about my whole Internet Disconnection issue with anybody aside from Tux
[15:37]<@BC_Programming> rather funny story.. gotta love incompetence
[15:37]<+camerongray> nope but doesn't sound good
[15:37]<@BC_Programming> that's why I haven't been here for about a week
[15:37]<@Mulreay> I did read back on that yes.. idiots
[15:37]<@BC_Programming> they just cut it off
[15:38]<@BC_Programming> phoned them up... according to them, we owed like $100; the bill we had said something like 70$, and it was paid up the day before
[15:38]<@BC_Programming> "but we don't have that transaction on file"
[15:38]<@BC_Programming> So what the money just went away?
[15:38]<+camerongray> lol
[15:38]<@BC_Programming> phoned them up again yesterday... they were saying that the additional charge was for this month.... or something
[15:39]<@BC_Programming> "well then Why did you cut us off? what are we paying for?"
[15:39]<@BC_Programming> "oh you should have service!"
[15:39]<@BC_Programming> Turn on TV: No signal... Internet Modem... Blinking lights
[15:39]<@BC_Programming> "Gee, have you ever wondered why we keep calling you about this?"
[15:39]<@BC_Programming> the funny thing was... 2 minutes later the cable returns
[15:40]<@BC_Programming> stupid person on the other side tries to say it's been on all along
[15:40]<@BC_Programming> BS
[15:40]<@BC_Programming> Same for the Internet which they tried to blame on everything else...
[15:40]<+camerongray> lol
[15:40]<@BC_Programming> I swear to god the tech support literally said to "ok, unplug the power cord from the modem, and plug the cord into the wall"
[15:41]<@BC_Programming> Really... you think that plugging a cord into the wall but nothing else is part of some solution
[15:41]<+camerongray> hehehe
[15:41]<+camerongray> Sounds like me with our satelite provider
[15:41]<+camerongray> Boy they are useless
[15:41]<@BC_Programming> then telling me to unplug my wifi router
[15:42]<@BC_Programming> I'm LOOKING at the cable modem. I've UNPLUGGED IT and plugged it back in to restart it several times. the MODEM is not working. the other Components are FINE...
[15:42]<+camerongray> Ahh, Sky are like that, they have to follow a script
[15:42]<@BC_Programming> Of course then they said to unplug it and "leave it unplugged until I say"
[15:42]<@BC_Programming> so I do that, no surprise it works when they say to plug it in.... and again, they try to pull the old "it was working the entire time, problem was on your end"
[15:43]<@BC_Programming> I mean come on how stupid do you think I am... you obviously went in and re-enabled it on your end while it was unplugged
[15:43]<@BC_Programming> "well the problem was on your end because it had extra charge in it"
[15:43]<+camerongray> Like "Unplug the set top box and plug it in again, Hold the 'Back Up' button down then plug it in" - The whole time I was saying "Look, The dish has fallen off the chimney, I'm sitting with it right now"
[15:44]<@BC_Programming> Extra charge... wtf... "First, that makes no sense at all. Second, when you were first called today, it had sat unplugged for two days, if there was "leftover charge- which I posit to be a whimsical fiction you've invented that might pass for people who are ignorant to the facts here, it would be gone."
[15:44]<@BC_Programming> HAHA! yeah I'm pretty sure it was just first level tech support having to follow a script before they are even allowed to look at thier end
[15:44]<@BC_Programming> but still a PITA
[15:45]<+camerongray> "Check the connection to the LNB on the back of the box" - "The box is attatched to the dish yes, but the dish is no longer attatched to the house"
[15:45]<@Mulreay> lol
[15:46]<+camerongray> They wouldn't have had the problem if they hadn't used their tiny little bolts in a VERY windy area
[15:46]<@BC_Programming> "unplug the modem and plug it back in" Nope still not working, just like the last 10 times I've tried that before calling. "ok, try unplugging it from the wall (wtf, how is that different) instead. "Nope". "Ok, try unplugging from both ends" (seriously how is this different?)... "nope, still not working"
[15:46]<@BC_Programming> I particularly love the "have you tried restarting the computer"
[15:46]<+camerongray> Oh yeah
[15:46]<+camerongray> We've had that from Sky too - Even though we don't use them for broadband, only TV
[15:46]<@BC_Programming> Like COME ON... the cable modem is here, it's blinking. It's basically TELLING me you've disconnected me, don't try to pull that on me
[15:47]<@BC_Programming> the sad part is I bet that whole "fix it and pretend it was working all along" thing actually works on some people
[15:48]<@Mulreay> Don't forget the 'unplug the cable to the computer first then unlug the modem from the wall' Why are you trying to not startle the computer?
[15:48]<@BC_Programming> Mulreay: LOL! that's the best description ever
[15:48]<@BC_Programming> you have to be careful those computers- they startle easily
[15:48]<@Mulreay> lol
[15:48]<@BC_Programming> One thing goes wrong and they explode, if star trek is any indication
[15:49]<@Mulreay> Yeah those damned relays
[15:49]<@BC_Programming> "hmm, perhaps we shouldn't be putting explosives behind these computer displays"
[15:49]<@Mulreay> I know, most dangerous computers ever
[15:50]<@Mulreay> Relays made half of TNT and the other in semtex
[15:50]<@BC_Programming> "No, You have no flair for the dramatic, lieutenant. Now hand me that C4, we want this relay to explode before this one if these bulkheads ever close in an emergency"
[15:51]<@BC_Programming> "Also, let's rig it so the warp containment field fails randomly. Nothing breaks up the monotony of my day like threatening several thousand lives"
[15:51]<@Mulreay> Also injector manifolds need greasing better
[15:51]<+Tux2> lol
[15:52]<@BC_Programming> "Also, hand me that instrument with the blinky lights"
[15:52]<@BC_Programming> "They all have blinky lights and make whirring noises"
[15:52]<@BC_Programming> "right... just hand me one"
[15:52]<+camerongray> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FONN-0uoTHI
[15:52]<+camerongray> Couldn't resist
[15:52]<@BC_Programming> "let's call this a "Coil spanner" I don't know what it means but neither does anybody else
[15:53]<@Mulreay> heh, 'Lieutenant pass me the thingy..' 'What thingy?' 'you know the kaleidoscope tube/pen' 'ahh yes, here you go sir'
[15:54]<@BC_Programming> "no dammit I wanted the one that was all red and blinky, this one is CLEARLY magenta and blinky... You know this TNT can go off easily if you blink the wrong color at it, what are you trying to kill us all"
[15:55]<@Mulreay> lol camerongray
[15:55]<@BC_Programming> "Go make yourself useful and do something less dangerous; perhaps you can pack some more fireworks into the maintenance areas in the Jeffrey's Tubes"
[15:55]<@Mulreay> and lol BC_Programming
[15:55]<@BC_Programming> "there aren't any extra flashlights so here, use this lighter to see as you carry the fireworks there"
[15:56]<@BC_Programming> "it should give you some time to think about proper safety procedures on this ship"
[15:57]<@Mulreay> heh
[15:58]<@BC_Programming> "OMG! there are extraneous emissions of inverse tachyons from this plasma ventricle!"
[15:58]<@BC_Programming> "What does that mean?"
[15:59]<@BC_Programming> "I'm not sure, most of what I said was babble. But I think we can fix it by programming the main deflector to vent the extra ketchup from the warp nacelles into the Jeffrey's tubes on B-Deck.
[16:00]<@BC_Programming> that main deflector, really is a versatile thing... you'd think it was for deflecting, but the name betrays nothing of it's clear versatility in all things
[16:05]<@BC_Programming> Anyway, to something more serious: Tux2, I found a Sharepoint Client API that could make the browser idea unnecessary; it allows for authentication, but from what I can tell it needs something called "Forms-based authentication" enabled on the sharepoint server; I can't find if this is on by default or anything but If you could find out if that would be a problem for them? I've got it loading
[16:05]<@BC_Programming> url/username/password stuff from the INI file
[16:20]<@BC_Programming> in other news- I was able to swap in the 1.5 bukkit build in my plugin's references- 0 problems :D 0% dependent on NMS confirmed
[16:22]<@BC_Programming> haha! the new custom name stuff is right on the Bukkit API LivingEntity... I shall have fun with this
[16:32]<@Mulreay> All my youtube stuff has somehow been deleted.. all my intros, thumbnails and files.. awesome
[16:32]<@Mulreay> on my PC that is
[16:36]<@BC_Programming> well that rather sucks I must admit
[16:40]<+Tux2> BC_Programming: that would be awesome!
[16:40]<+Tux2> Can you do a skype call right now?
[16:41]<@BC_Programming> no :/
[17:02]<@Mulreay> Awesome had to re-buy an intro because they only last for 2 days for download.. angry? no just upset..
[17:03]<@BC_Programming> you could use downloadhelper to grab one of your existing videos, then snip out the intro
[17:09]<@Mulreay> Yeah, thought of that.. decided to just rage at the website and there contact us service
[17:09]<@BC_Programming> heh
[17:23]<@Mulreay> BC_Programming check this out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iG7nK-TLBiI&list=FLORGjZTWrKhet6_gXhjxelg&index=1
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[18:42]<@Mulreay> Finally managed to render a video without the laptop auto-shutting down
[18:42]<@Mulreay> I guess the strip down and new cooling tray has worked
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